Gerhard Koornhof How does the Nationalist Party (NP) view the value of the TRC? As far as the aim and the purpose of the TRC, we are in full agreement with that. But the NP is extremely uncomfortable about the way that the commission has developed its task. What would have had to change for the NP to wholeheartedly participate in the process? To not take a simplistic, one-sided historical perspective, but to look at a range of historical perspectives in this country. The commission is concentrating only on the struggle against apartheid and the struggle for freedom. The question of self-determination is ignored. The Afrikaners historically believed for many, many years in this country that they could strive for self-determination - they called it 'separate development' or 'apartheid' or whatever, they changed the name over the years. But the people that fought in our freedom struggle did so because they wanted self-determination. Another historical perspective was the support of the West versus the Soviet Union/Communism. That historical perspective also manifested itself here. To get the TRC on track is to accept each other's bona fides, to say that we are not going to prejudge any submission to the TRC. The process must be even-handed, objectively producing a report saying, This at the end of the day is our finding. This is the truth, but so what. Let's reconcile. Let's close the books and let's go forward with the people who want to go forward. What do you mean when you say 'even-handedness' is still lacking? There were atrocities on both sides. The weight may differ - possibly so. But you must give the opportunity for everybody to come and express their sorrow, to pour their hearts out. They must ask for forgiveness and try to reconcile and try to forget. I doubt whether we have bitterness in this country. Maybe if I was on the other side I would have reacted differently. We need to take full responsibilities on all sides. Unless we do we are not going to get reconciliation. I get the impression sometimes by looking at the body language of people [the commissioners] that they are not really committed. They are not listening to what people are saying - maybe not in an emotional way, but in a very true way, saying, "Really, we are sorry for that." If the Truth commission ends within the next few months, and we haven't reached reconciliation, how are we going to go forward from there? If the TRC comes out with the truth, but cannot achieve reconciliation, what then?

Willie Hofmeyer Is transitional justice best served with a commission of this nature? I think the previous government would not have given up power without some promise of amnesty. Without that there would have been no peace process. From our side the idea of the Truth commission was to try and preserve a balance in the process. On the one hand, we tried to address the fears of the white minority that was giving up power, but on the other hand not making compromises that would impair the ability of the new government to meet the aspirations of those people that suffered under apartheid. Reconciliation - do you believe that the TRC is doing what it set out to do in this respect? For me, to some extent, an opportunity has been lost, because it would have done the process of reconciliation an immense amount of good if the previous establishment had shown greater commitment to the process. I would include the Dutch Reformed Church as part of that - I don't think it has shown any great enthusiasm or commitment to the process. What should the government and Church have done? They could have really encouraged the white community to go and listen to the things that happened that they didn't know about. They could have encouraged much more actively those people who have done these things to come forward, and could have given them some sort of moral support. I think instead there has been this idea created that the TRC is a witch hunt. In that sense the reconciliation aspect has not worked out as well as one may have hoped for. But realistically, the reconciliation that one is talking about here is a much broader and longer-term thing. I think the amnesty promise is certainly a concrete path towards that reconciliation, in saying that we are forgiving those people even if they are not sorry for what they have done. The TRC is there to try and create a climate in which reconciliation can be achieved - perhaps irrespective of the petty attitude of politicians. Our commission is unique in the way it uses amnesty as a kind of a carrot to let people come forward and disclose what has happened. I think in that sense it is likely to be a lot more successful than any other truth commissions. I certainly think that those who argue that here one is selling out on justice for purposes of reconciliation are wrong. I think this process secures restorative justice for the victim, and in fact social justice for our society. More broadly, I would say in fact that it is a way of trying to combine the need for justice and need for reconciliation - both very real needs in our country.

Prof Ampie Muller is a senior consultant at CCR.

CONTENTS    HOME